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Hello everybody and welcome to 2006's first liveevent.
Today we will be talking to Compy, one of the coders of chanfix, a newly linked service here on undernet.
Compy will kick off with an introduction on chanfix, after which there will be plenty of room for questions.
Good evening Undernetters. Thank you for hosting this event with me.
That said, let's give the word to Compy.
It is an honor to be here talking about the chanfix service directly.
Chanfix is a service whose purpose is to assist users in keeping ops in their channels.
The chanfix system is designed to keep track of which ops have been opped the longest and based on that, will be reopped in the future.
In takeover situations, chanfix is able to help IRC Operators determine the rightful owner of a channel so that it can easily be returned to that owner.
From day to day across Undernet, users were confronted with the loss of ops either by takeovers, splits, or connection issues.
These situations took many hours of both user- and oper time, being that opers needed to search through logs in order to determine the rightful owner of a channel.
The process took so long that a user could be waiting in a help channel for hours before being assisted.
Having a functional chanfix service on Undernet would make getting reopped in channels much faster.
In many cases, this process will be automated, thus saving both users and opers lots of time searching through log files.
Chanfix will only keep track of channels that:
* are not registered with X
* have at least 1 op with a registered X username
* have at least 4 users.
Chanfix only tracks channel ops that are logged in on X.
It does NOT matter if these ops are +x'ed or not.
Because chanfix keeps data based on how long users have been opped, its data is highly reliable.
Highly respected and trusted channel ops will be opped longer in most cases, thus will get ops first in a fix.
When chanfix "fixes", or is in the process of reopping a channel, it can op the top 5 scoring ops it finds on the channel.
These ops must be opped for at least 13.5 hours total over the past 2 weeks to be considered for ops by chanfix.
Chanfix decides who it will op based on a score. Each op chanfix sees has their own score, between 1 and 4032.
For every 5 minutes you are opped, you get 1 point.
To get ops at all, you must have at least 162 points (13.5 hours).
Chanfix acts in 2 ways, automatically and manually.
Chanfix will automatically start fixing your channel if it is opless.
If there is at least one op that shouldn't be there, it is considered a takeover in any situation therefore it can be taken care of by asking for a fix in #nastrand,#zt,#arlington etc.
If you have a manual fix in a takeover situation, chanfix will clear all modes (deop all users, unban all bans) before starting to reop users. (this allows high scoring ops to rejoin)
In both manual and automatic fixes, chanfix does the same thing when it decides who to op.
First, chanfix starts out at the highest score possible (4032) and sees who can get opped.
If you have 4032 points, you will be reopped instantly.
Chanfix can keep reopping its 5 top channel ops based on score for up to an hour.
So, throughout the hour, the score chanfix accepts for reops is lowered.
The lowest score chanfix will reop is 162, and that is at the end of the hour time frame.
So technically if you have around 1900-2000 points, you will be reopped somewhere in the middle.
So higher scoring ops can be reopped in seconds, lower scoring ops can take up to an hour to be opped.
If at any point while chanfix is "fixing" your channel there are 5 ops opped, then chanfix will stop opping the higher scoring ops.
Because chanfix only sees who has been opped for the past 2 weeks, your score can lower over time if you do not keep ops.
Once a user's score reaches 0 (after 2 weeks of absence) then they are no longer seen by chanfix until they reenter the channel and get opped (from there they will start at a fresh score).
Oper help concerning chanfix can be acquired in #nastrand, #zt, or #arlington.
For general chanfix assistance, you can go to #userguide and ask there.
The undernet.org website will have chanfix documentation soon.
We plan to have chanfix service up shortly, when that time comes it will be announced on www.undernet.org, so stay tuned!
Chanfix is NOT an alternative channel service, it is just a last-resort restoration service.
Also, we are in NO way related with CSC, we just recognize ops by registered usernames.
Thank you for your introduction, Compy.
You will now have the opportunity to ask your question(s).
After waiting to receive a large number of questions, we will sort through them and pick out the ones we wish our guests to answer.
At this time, if you wish to submit a question, please /msg #chanfix_questions <your question here>.
Feel free to submit multiple questions. :)
<QUESTION> the 13.5 hours can be in multiple session or need to stay oped that long 1 shot ?
<ANSWER> Good question, no it does not have to be in one long session.
The 13.5 hours is over the period of the past 2 weeks.
<QUESTION> Nice option, but... what happens if a (wrong) user is opped on a split-server, and the server stays split for about 24 hours?? (is chanfix seeing this user at all?)
<ANSWER> Chanfix will automatically deactivate if less than 75% of the network is linked.
So if less than 75% of the network is linked, chanfix will not continue to add points to users.
<QUESTION> Chanfix can keep track for Warez channels?
<ANSWER> Chanfix can keep track of any channel that meets the minimum requirements stated before, being that undernet is the unmoderated medium that it is.
<QUESTION> Will Chanfix be on every channel automaticaly or we have to request?
<ANSWER> Chanfix is capable of fixing any channel that meets minimum requirements (at least 5 users, 1 registered op, and no registration)
You will only have to request a fix if your channel is taken over and has ops in it.
If your channel is opless, chanfix can act automatically on your channel.
<QUESTION> If X is split, will chanfix start to monitor registered channels?
<ANSWER> No, if X is split chanfix will not learn any new channels it didn't already keep track of when X was linked. However it WILL continue to score existing unregistered channels it already knew of.
<sprinkler> <mite`> Over all, is UnderNet's C going to be more or less strict than EFNet's Chanfix service?
<Compy> Undernet's C acts the same way as efnet's chanfix when it decides who to op. The only difference is that we track ops by registered X username.
<QUESTION> when this service will start ?
<ANSWER> Chanfix will be available to the public very VERY soon. We just have to make sure everything is working properly!
<QUESTION> Two weeks is the normal vacation time off. What happens if the regular owner is offline on his 2-week vacation, comes back and the channel is taken over? Wouldn't it be better to have a longer period other than 2 weeks? maybe a history log?
<ANSWER> Good question. We realize that this can be an inconvenience for a few people. We are testing to see how chanfix would run over a longer period of time. For now it may be wise to consider getting more than 1 trusted/registered op in the channel to keep ops while you're gone though.
<QUESTION> How do I see, if my channels is watched by Chanfix?
<ANSWER> Your channel can be seen by chanfix if it meets the minimum requirements previously stated. However, for security reasons users cannot know what their score is or who the higher scoring ops are.
NOTE: This event will be translated into various languages and put up on the usercom webpages.
<QUESTION> what if some one dont wanna chanfix follow his channel managing?
<ANSWER> Well simply dont lose ops and chanfix wont intervene :P, however we are trying to figure out a way to let managers choose if they want their channel to be watched or not (this is a long way off). For now, it watches all unregistered channels that meet the requirements.
<QUESTION> and what users can do if chanfix is down ?
<ANSWER> Chanfix is not likely to be down for an extended period of time. However if it is down, you can always do what you have always done: go to your reop channel (#nastrand, #zt, #arlington) and ask for a reop there. Have logs handy! :)
<QUESTION> So, from now on, we'll be seeing a Chanfix nick on unregistered channels, just like X in the registered ones?
<ANSWER> No, chanfix never enters a channel even if it is being fixed. The only thing you will see from chanfix itself is a message to your channel saying that "a fix is in progress". All of the actual modes are done through the servers.
<QUESTION> does the chanfix will have some statistics avilable for us as users to see it for every channel?
<ANSWER> good question, but for security reasons we cannot release any score information. Not even the users' own. This is to prevent attacks among high scoring ops.
<QUESTION> If a channel is re-created, will the Chanfix scores be lost?
<ANSWER> Your channel would have to be totally empty for 2 weeks solid for chanfix scores to be lost for the whole channel. If that happens, the channel is up for grabs. Consider setting a bot or something to keep your channel if it is small.
<QUESTION> does chanfix *watch* the channels that are in registration progress ?
<ANSWER> Chanfix will watch your channels until X actually appears on the channel. After the channel is accepted, chanfix will no longer score your channel.
<QUESTION> do I have to be mode +x too ? Or is it enough to be logged on X ?
<ANSWER> Nope, its quite easy. All you have to do is be logged into X. Whether you're +x or not has no influence. Chanfix will still see you.
<QUESTION> do the 4 "users" in the channel have to always be there, what happens if there are 3 or less during an opless situation, and if more turn up during that opless situation to make it 4 or more.. and do they need to have usernames and be logged in too?
<ANSWER> The requirement is simply 4 users. They do not have to be registered or logged in at all. If your channel is opless and has 3 users or so, then nothing will happen. When more users turn up and join, chanfix will start fixing the channel as long as it has scores for that channel that are above 162.
<QUESTION> If someone keeps X off from a registered channel, will Chanfix monitor it?
<ANSWER> yes, but we are trying to find ways to deal with those situations. Then again, if that happens, the manager is willingly putting his channel under the monitor of chanfix because managers only can part X.
<QUESTION> why the max score is 4032 and not 1000 ? i mean xx32 ?
<ANSSWER> Well, due to load issues we had to make it something the program could tolerate. So it was easier to have it issue points once every 5 mins to keep load down, and 5 mins = 1 point. Also 2 weeks was chosen as the score frame for the same reason (so we could conserve space), so the math added up to 4032.
<QUESTION> what happens when there is a user like me for instance that stays on IRC for weeks at a time and would acquire the maximum score? I mean I could technically own that channel then even though it is not my channel.
<ANSWER> Well, the manager/owner must trust you to keep you opped for that long. Being so, you are the better choice for chanfix to op because that proves that you are a trusted op.
<QUESTION> are there any direct commands to use the chanfix service? eg.. /msg x op <nick>
<ANSWER> No, chanfix has no direct user commands to initiate a fix on the channel. We have considered adding functionality so a high scoring op could issue a fix, but that is a while down the road :)
<QUESTION> You have stated that we as users cannot see any ChanFix scores. Can anyone see the scores (ie opers and/or Cservice admins). When would these admins look? Can any of these admins reset and/or modify scores?
<ANSWER> Great question. Scores are read only, so admins or opers cannot modify any of these scores. Yes opers and admins CAN see the scores in the event that they want to verify that the user who's asking for a fix is a high scoring op if their channel is taken over.
<QUESTION> So, the actual scoring will be made among the username u are logged , but what if someone takes advantage of a netsplit and will be logged with the same username , on 2 nicks ? will he / she get more points ?
<ANSWER> No, even if there are 2 nicks logged into the same user for whatever reason, they will not be given twice the amount of points.
<QUESTION> Supposing a channel gets purged. Once X leaves, Chanfix will monitor that channel again automatically?
<ANSWER> Yes, chanfix will begin to monitor that channel once X leaves the channel.
<QUESTION> is there a limit to the number of channels one can own?
<ANSWER> No, chanfix will track you in as many channels as you keep ops frequently in as long as those channels meet the requirements to be monitored.
<QUESTION> will chanfix monitor &chans as well as #chans ?
<ANSWER> &chans are local to servers and thus are not propogated or seen by other servers (hence they are called local chans). So no, chanfix cannot see &chans.
<QUESTION> So only opers can see the scores? what about the helpers on #zt and #arlington wich are not opers?Can they see if there arent online oper?
<ANSWER> Only opers can see the scores, correct. Helpers cannot access score information and there are no exceptions to the rule in that case.
<QUESTION> If one channel is on NeverReg or is in one ILC list , him (the channel) is the monitor of ChanFix ?
<ANSWER> Correct, ILC lists aren't shared with chanfix by CService or any other help channels. If your channel is not registered, has 1 registered op, and has at least 4 users, the chan can be monitored by chanfix.
<QUESTION> what happens if there's a fight between 2 ops of a channel which have high score? will they just ban/kick themselves and ChanFix unban and reop them?
<ANSWER> there are rare events where this could happen. We are debating a command to allow opers to temporarily keep chanfix from fixing a channel on its own while opers tend to the issue and determine who the rightful owner is.
<QUESTION> what if my channel lose ops? would the chanfix take action immediatly or I have to wait some time(and if I have to wait, how long should I wait) ?
<ANSWER> In the event that you lose ops, chanfix can take action within the next 60 seconds as long as your channel has at least 4 users and has some high scoring ops on the channel.
<QUESTION> A lot is being said of the minimum requirements of at least one op and four users. Considering this is the minimum requirement, over what time period must this membership level be held to qualify a channel for Chanfix? a moment, an hour, a day, etc.?
<ANSWER> At any instant that the requirements are met, chanfix starts tracking your channel. However in order to be qualified for a reop, you must attain the status for at least 13.5 hours.
<QUESTION> Supposing a channel is already opless and for any reason cant have X or reops.. Chanfix can monitor that channel? and if it yes.. How if no have ops?
<ANSWER> If a channel NEVER has ops, then no, chanfix cannot find out who the manager is or monitor the channel because there have never been ops, thus, no rightful owner.
<QUESTION> Given the recent quality of service amongst UNdernet servers, how well will Chanfix track splits *and* attempted takeovers?
<ANSWER> Chanfix is a direct implementation as a service to the network, so it can see network related data such as modes and splits. If at any point less than 75% of the servers are linked, chanfix will not score or monitor ANY new channels. So all in all, it can track them pretty well with those checks in place.
<QUESTION> How many score records does Chanfix keep for a channel?
<ANSWER> At the moment, chanfix can store up to 255 score records per channel. This might be increased later on depending on performance over the initial operation of chanfix.
<QUESTION> wouldn't it be smarter to give the first person to join a channel a high score, caus he is most likely the actual owner of a channel ...
<ANSWER> doing so could corrupt the entire algorithm because it'd shoot the max. points over 4032. To avoid confusion, we don't do that because some channel members could join before the member who actually had the idea of creating the channel. (this has happened in several occasions in the past)
<QUESTION> If X is in split for more than 13.5 hours in a two week period, then even our registered channels would have ChanFix eligible users? In this is the case, when X is in split, ChanFix *could* op users in a resigered channel?
<ANSWER> No, if X is split, none of those channels would be monitored.
<QUESTION> There will be chanfix test? on some channel? some kind of a demostration? and can we see it?
<ANSWER> hmmm, currently chanfix is not enabled on this network, so that is kind of impossible.
Since there are no more questions being directed to #chanfix_questions it like it's time for a final question.
<QUESTION> when do we drink a beer ? :))
<ANSWER> hehe, I would like to thank you all for having me here. Mostly my supporting codevelopers and staff on the chanfix project and those who helped in other areas.
In the name of user-com and all those that will benefit from the explanation you have given about Chanfix, Thanks!
Also, I would like to thank everyone from user-com who helped made this event possible.
and I would like to thank you all for joining in to learn more.
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